How do you always provide you with good concepts? How can you recognize what path it is best to go in your enterprise when you've gotten a busy schedule and little or no time to simply assume?
In my interview as we speak with Saud Juman, we talk about find out how to faucet into the “artistic properly” and what precisely that's.
Saud began an organization known as PolicyMedical.com virtually 18 years in the past. He exited the corporate about 2 years in the past.
Policy Medical is a SaaS firm that serves hospitals primarily to arrange their coverage paperwork.
Saud has an awesome artistic framework for:
arising with new SaaS or different concepts
deciding the place to focus your time
What area of interest to enter
We discuss one thing that Saud calls the “Creative Well”. Saud used the artistic properly to assist him perceive the place his skilled journey ought to go and ultimately the concepts that turned Policy Medical.
During the second half of the interview, we talk about content material advertising methods. Policy Medical has a very lengthy gross sales cycle and the software program can value $50,000 or $100,000 or extra.
He was capable of apply the rules of content material advertising, answering clients’ questions, and even getting clients to write down a few of the content material for them.
Listen in to listen to how he navigated the content material advertising course of and the way it helped develop Policy Medical into the enterprise it turned.
Saud additionally gives enterprise teaching and consulting. So, in case you’d prefer to get in contact with him you may join with him both on LinkedIn right here or at SaudJuman.io.
Enjoy the interview!
Read the Full Transcript
Spencer: Hey Saud. Welcome to the area of interest pursuits podcast.
Saud Juman: Thank you, Spencer. It’s my pleasure to be right here. Thanks for having me.
Spencer: Yeah, it’s nice to attach. We linked by way of a mutual individual, Chris Yates, who runs the rhodium weekend convention. And, so I’m tremendous excited to have you ever on the podcast. as I’ve been doing my analysis and studying a little bit bit extra about you, you’ve actually constructed a profitable firm, find out how to profitable exit.
That we’re going to dive into right here a little bit bit, however to offer our listeners a little bit bit extra in your background, what had been you doing professionally earlier than you ever began coverage medical?
Saud Juman: when it comes to my career and I imply, coverage medical truly spend an extended chunk of my life, virtually 17 and a half years.
so I began that firm once I was in my twenties. by day, my job actually was as a software program or tech salesperson. That’s, that’s what I used to be doing by day by evening. I had a number of different companies that had been utterly unrelated. To tech, they, they had been companies that I moved away from as a result of I felt that it didn’t serve me personally.
And it didn’t serve me when it comes to the place I wished to go, when it comes to my entrepreneurial profession. So I left that, I took a while away, for nearly 10 months to actually take into consideration. What it's I wished to do with my life and what it's I wished to begin, as a result of I wished to do one thing impactful that may not simply generate earnings, however have an effect on different folks basically.
Spencer: Yeah, I feel that’s, superior to have the ability to discover one thing that, perhaps you’re obsessed with or that you simply need to do. And so that you took a break there. How did you find yourself arising with this concept? Or how did you resolve what space you wished to enter that you simply felt like would make an impression?
Saud Juman: Great, nice query.
So, I imply, it’s, it’s value noting that the trail I used to be on earlier than I began coverage medical, it wasn’t. It wasn’t one thing that I deemed to be constructive or, and, or serving humanity in any great way. I felt in lots of ways in which it was form of a pit like of form of a darker pit, I type of visualized it and I wished to do one thing constructive.
So what I intuitively did was I looking back, ended up embarking on this virtually 10 months of solitude the place I'd type of like, simply sit there at evening and ponder what it's I wished to do. With my life to positively impression folks and to actually no matter I used to be speculated to be glorious at in my profession for that to type of come out and, and actually have a constructive impression on folks.
And the extra I type of sat with my very own ideas round what I wished to do with my life. I began to rule out. For positive what I didn’t need to do. So what I didn't need to do long-term was I didn’t need to get form of a 9 to 5 job that wasn’t for me, nothing towards that, however it simply wasn’t for me.
I, I didn't need to work for another person. So slowly I began to reach at, okay, properly, I wished to do, my very own enterprise, if you'll. And then. As I sat with it additional over the 10 months. and I spotted that’s type of an excessive period of time. I settled on healthcare. I wished to do one thing inside well being.
and I, I can't divided that concept once I left my, I assume my time in solitude, if you'll. And I began to search for alternatives that may come my approach that had been healthcare associated. Now that would have manifested itself when it comes to me. I dunno, making an attempt to grow to be a nutritionist or a physician or a private coach or one thing in there within the space of well being and wellness.
But someday, one in all my pals who was, a tech recruiter, he known as me and he mentioned, Hey, you recognize what? There’s a. There’s a gross sales opening at this firm. and I mentioned, Oh actually? I mentioned, okay, properly, you recognize, I don’t need to work for someone long-term, however I do want a job. I gotta pay the payments right here. what, what, it’s this firm now with what’s all of it about?
And it was in a suburb of the higher Toronto space the place, the place I dwell and he mentioned, properly, it’s a healthcare tech firm. I mentioned, Ooh, healthcare. I mentioned, I am going, I’d like to go for an interview. When I interviewed there, acquired employed. And then whereas I used to be at that firm, I wasn’t there very lengthy. I used to be there for perhaps six months, you recognize, you recognize, it is a whereas in the past.
And whereas I used to be there, I used to be in command of gross sales and that firm, it was a type of corporations round that point the place they weren't principally targeted on a. Product or executing on an awesome service. They had been extra within the enterprise of making an attempt to boost cash from their angel traders. And yeah, and I encountered an issue each time I attempted to promote their product, folks on the cellphone prospects would inform me no, you recognize what?
We don’t need X. We need Y and, and who we had been promoting to. We had been making an attempt to promote to hospitals and we had been promoting this generic intranet answer, identical to an web web site, however internally throughout the hospital. And I began to get pissed off. And, after which someday I used to be speaking to the top of engineering as a result of this firm, the engineers additionally did all of that implementation and deployment.
And he shared with me, he mentioned, you recognize, it’s type of irritating. He mentioned, why are you pissed off? He mentioned, properly, everytime you guys do lock out and promote one thing, then you may shoppers name us and say, Hey, you recognize, we don’t actually need it to do X. We truly need it to do Y. So I mentioned, Hey, that’s, that’s the identical factor they’re telling me proper at the start of the gross sales cycle.
so I took that concept and I ended up going to the CEO and the vp of that firm that we work for. And I mentioned, Hey, no, I used to be naive and younger. So I mentioned, Hey, let’s simply cease constructing this. And let’s construct this different factor, as a result of that is what, that is what the market needs. And, you recognize, they type of, you recognize, they, they weren’t what I've to say.
They had their very own concept of what they had been doing. So they despatched me again to my cubicle. And so simply carry on promoting what we have now. And the very subsequent day I took that lead engineer, out for a sub at subway on the port throughout the, throughout the way in which from her workplace. And I mentioned, Hey, I, I feel we must always stop. He mentioned, stop.
Why would we stop? And I mentioned, properly, perhaps we will begin our personal firm, attempt to construct this concept that, that the shoppers or potential clients are telling us about. And he informed me, he mentioned, you recognize, I don’t even know. How to resign from a job. I mentioned, don’t fear about it. I’m going to look it up on the web.
I’m going to return to work tomorrow. I’m going to have two resignation letters, one for you, one for me. And that’s what I did. I confirmed up. We resigned, we walked out and it’s Canada. It’s chilly. I walked out. I keep in mind him trying to me and, and that is no, it is a whereas in the past, like about 20 years in the past now at this level.
So again then, You know, in a giant metropolis, like the place I dwell, which is Toronto, you recognize, now we have now a giant tech scene and there are co-location websites and shared workplace areas and we labored and all that stuff. Right. And I do know we’re in a pandemic, however you recognize, outdoors of the pandemic, there’s all that infrastructure.
however again then, you recognize, if you begin an organization, your mindset is, properly, you want an workplace, proper? So he requested, he has me, he’s excited. Where the hell are we going to work? Where are we going to attempt to construct this firm? And I simply thought, and I mentioned, don’t fear. I acquired the proper place. 24 by seven, entry.
There’s a fitness center, there’s a caterer. we acquired, every part does even a bathe. He mentioned, Oh man, the place’s this workplace. I mentioned, it’s my mother’s basement. She’s going to allow us to, I take advantage of it. I acquired my outdated weight bench there. She’s going to cook dinner for us. That’s the place we’re going to begin the corporate. And that’s, that’s the place we began that firm.
Spencer: Sounds very nice. so I need to dig into a few of these particulars just a bit bit. do you're feeling like the chance discovered you otherwise you discovered the chance and what I imply by that's simply primarily based on a few issues that you simply mentioned as you had been type of taking your 10 month break there, you form of.
Decided. Okay. You need to go into healthcare, however you had been then simply ready till perhaps one thing healthcare associated and that cellphone name from the recruiter form of got here your approach. And then as you had been working at that firm, you discover, Hey, clients are asking for this, maybe that’s a great alternative.
So how do you view that, you recognize, is, is, is that how folks ought to, discover their very own concepts is type of. Hone in on a sure space of curiosity and look ahead to these alternatives to type of discover them.
Saud Juman: Yeah. And, you recognize, I, I don’t need to get too esoteric right here and I’m not a really superstitious individual, however I, you recognize, I feel, and I type of, I, again then I adopted the Napoleon Hill assume and develop wealthy sort of mentality.
And, and for those who haven't learn that e book, you recognize, it’s an awesome e book. It’s over 100 years outdated. Right. And it’s type of the beginning of the. Of the expansion mindset type of philosophy again within the 1920s. That’s now truly, as a result of there once more, however principally one tenant of that e book that I at all times hung onto is that ideas are actual issues.
They’re not simply fictitious issues like, so a thought truly has an impression on the market has some vitality to it. So, and I feel that when a thought may be very singular and really pure. I don’t know in case you entice issues to you, however I feel that you simply begin to see alternatives that you'd have simply ignored earlier than.
Right? So, and I feel this works with good and unhealthy. So for instance, like you may have a singular, unhealthy ideas and perception like a perception. Let’s say in case you’re operating your individual enterprise proper now's outwardly. You’re making an attempt to make the enterprise a purpose, however inside your individual head and inside your individual chest and your individual coronary heart.
You don’t consider in your organization, you consider it’s going to fail. It’s most likely going to fail since you’re going to begin gravitating to minimalistic sort of decisions that received’t actually serve the enterprise for me again to reply your query immediately. At that point, I made a decision to attempt to filter all of the muddle in my life when it comes to ideas and hone in and what I actually, actually wished.
And what I actually wished was some type of alternative within the realm of well being care. That would permit me to serve and assist different folks whereas making a residing like that was what I used to be. So the work was truly finished in these 10 months. Yeah. The precise work, like attending to that concept. And now once I type of left that point of solitude, proper.
And that point of solitude, like I name it the artistic properly, Right. If earlier than I used to be in a life the place I name the pits, just like the pit is it’s, it's a gap. It’s not serving you. You’re doing the flawed issues. You’re misaligned, you’re doing, you recognize, and, and it doesn’t need to be dramatic addressing, it may simply be a flawed profession alternative or the flawed job or the flawed enterprise.
however then I left the pit after which I went into the artistic wealth, which is that point of solitude. So that I consider is the place the work occurred and occurs. And then once I left. I left with what I say, you recognize what I’ve mentioned earlier than is eyes and ears extensive open. Now I’m actually trying to see, okay, what are the alternatives which might be on the market that ordinarily, I simply type of overlook.
I brushed to the facet. I’m too skeptical. I questioned it an excessive amount of. Right. I may have discovered like 100 totally different the reason why I didn’t need to go for that interview, at that healthcare tech firm that I resigned from. however as a result of I used to be so targeted on well being, I used to be like, Ooh, Hello. All proper, let me, let me see.
Let me see what that’s, what that’s all about.
Spencer: So let’s discuss these artistic. Well, just a bit bit extra right here. so a whole lot of my listeners try to resolve, you recognize, what’s, what’s the area of interest that they need to go into to construct an internet site or what’s the trade, proper. That they need to deal with and develop, or, perhaps they’re wanting to begin a SAS firm, proper.
A small SAS firm, however they’re not fairly positive what the thought must be, and perhaps they don’t have these. Few months the place they will, you recognize, take an entire break, proper. They nonetheless acquired a full-time job and so they acquired households and loads happening. How, how do folks faucet into that artistic? Well,
Saud Juman: yeah, I do know.
And I, I can relate to, to a few of your listeners, as a result of you recognize, now I’m, I’m, you recognize, I assume I’m painted versus exit founder, however I’m on the brink of begin one other firm. And main as much as that, you recognize, my spouse and I, we have now 4 children or different pressures. I can’t, I can’t disappear for 10 months and, and, and try this.
Right. But I’ve tasted the ability of what a little bit little bit of solitude can do. Right. And the ability is making an attempt to hearken to your self. I feel that’s the, in my thoughts, that’s the definition of pondering lots of people after they sit and take into consideration what must get into. Or what SAS firm to begin or what web site to construct most individuals in my humble opinion, most individuals’s definition of pondering.
And I’m nonetheless topic to this a whole lot of the time, then I catch myself. We’re not truly pondering what we’re doing is we’re listening to in our heads, the voices of our lecturers from the previous, our mother and father. Our colleagues, simply actually different folks’s concepts and ideas, proper? And these, and today it’s even worse due to social media, proper?
People are studying stuff on, on Instagram and Twitter and LinkedIn and Facebook or no matter it's. And, and that’s coming into their, what they consider is, is their pondering time. My, my perception of pondering is adopting some type of apply. That permits that stuff to return into your head then permits it to go away and lets you go.
And then you definately permit your self to go actually, actually silent and quiet, after which you can begin listening to your individual voice and your individual voice is what time, what it's you’re speculated to be doing. That’s the voice that informed me healthcare, proper? It’s I had no healthcare background earlier than this. Right. But it’s it’s No.
It’s what informed me healthcare, healthcare is the factor to do, proper? so today I've my very own little mini practices that permit to offer that enables me to take a mini retreat. If you'll, inside myself to see if the trail I’m embarking on is definitely the one I’m speculated to be taking.
Spencer: And do you employ that form of technique of pondering, throughout all areas of your life, life?
I imply, it’s past enterprise. Do you type of take a while to consider I’ve acquired 4 children as properly, by the way in which I noticed it, so I do know the place you’re coming from, you recognize, so perhaps sit down and take into consideration the way you’re elevating your loved ones or, simply different features. Do you type of use the identical form of methods.
Saud Juman: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and, you recognize, the, the, the method is, is nothing sophisticated. Right. you recognize, and it’s, I’ve at all times been doing it. So when Josh and I, that was my co-founder when Josh and I began that enterprise and had been in my mother’s basement, you recognize, he was the engineer he’d be coding away, however I'd, you recognize, I'd be doing my work for the corporate, however from time to time I'd simply cease and I’d go to the load bench and I carry some weights after which I am going work once more.
And then after a short while I'd cease after which I’d go into the yard that I grew up in as a child, go to the basketball hoop and shoot some hoops, after which I’d come again in and do some extra work. And then I spotted today, you recognize, once I speak to different entrepreneur entrepreneurs, that will come to me and say, properly, how did you provide you with this concept?
How’d you provide you with that concept? And they might, they’d began asking me about issues like meditation, proper. And I do meditate. I do have some formal methods of how I meditate and, however, however I feel that the perfect methods of disconnecting from everybody else’s ideas and to listen to your self is what I name the sixth grade or twelve-year-old method.
And what I imply by that's I even have the assumption that summer time round that age, like 12 years outdated. as a result of, you recognize, we will, we will, most of us can keep in mind again to after we had been for positive. Right. What was the factor that you simply had been doing that allowed you to lose monitor of time and produce you immense pleasure?
Right? That these are my two standards mine. My, my method, consider it or not, that’s most likely probably the most highly effective meditation method. I've extra so than like formal meditation that I'll do. Is going to my driveway outdoors of my home proper now as a 40 one thing yr outdated man and capturing free throws.
So I try this like proper now I’m gearing as much as launch a brand new enterprise and new tech, a brand new SAS enterprise. But after I labored for like a pair hours, I’ll go outdoors and I’ll shoot, you recognize, 20, 30 free throws and this come again in and proceed working. But these free throws. It’s joyful for me. And I lose monitor of time.
Now, my neighbors are most likely questioning, you recognize, throughout this pandemic, what the hell is happening with this man? Right? Why’s this man. Cause I don’t, I don’t see another males, my age capturing free throws of their driveway. Sweet. But it’s my, it’s my method, you recognize, for someone else. I don’t know, perhaps you performed like the unique tremendous Mario brothers or mega man or duck hunt or one thing.
Right. And that’s, and that’s what, that’s, what lets you lose monitor of time. Maybe you surf, perhaps you skateboard, however often for folks my age, and even below thirties or late twenties, when you concentrate on issues like this, you’re like, Oh man. Yeah, there's that factor. And I haven’t finished it for awhile.
Spencer: Yeah, I like that loads. I can consider a few issues. You’ve checked a couple of of these, you recognize, duck hunt and Mario brothers, proper. That’s for positive I used to be doing these, however, you recognize, proper now truly I, I, I run loads and I discover that once I’m out operating, you recognize, I'd go run for 30 minutes or 45 minutes or, or longer generally.
I do some good pondering, proper? I’ve truly provide you with a number of concepts now that I take into consideration that in my run, you recognize, type of in my minds, not often on my enterprise, however generally the ideas simply gravitate in the direction of that and, I’m capable of make some choices. so I can respect that very a lot.
So let’s, we’re, we’re truly gonna form of quick ahead by way of the coverage medical story just a bit bit, however, Give folks an concept what coverage medical was, what was form of the preliminary concept and you recognize, what, what it’s grown, what it grew into. after which I need to discuss advertising and content material advertising particularly the way you grew the corporate.
Saud Juman: Okay, nice. so coverage medical on the onset and it, and it's what it did all over when it comes to its flagship product. It was an information administration and doc administration, SAS primarily based firm. So I discovered that throughout the hospital setting again then there was, there was a selected sort of doc that was actually necessary for the hospital to handle and so they weren't managing it appropriately.
in order that doc was known as the coverage. So there, there are insurance policies in each firm. So for instance, in a hospital, there’s a coverage that outlines how you must disinfect and clear a scalpel. After you completed surgical procedure, there's a coverage that claims how the foyer of a hospital must be mopped and dried to stop falls in that exact foyer.
So, and people, these paperwork turned tremendous necessary as a result of if a hospital didn't handle it appropriately, they might, encounter very critical litigation lawsuits or totally different fines as properly. in order that’s the place our software program got here in to assist them with that. after which from there we began to construct different merchandise.
an add on merchandise as properly, however the coverage administration piece that SAS primarily based product, was the primary focus of, of the corporate. And the corporate was a SAS primarily based firm all over, when it comes to revenues, prefer it was at all times 90% recurring software program licenses and perhaps 10%. service-based income that got here from coaching and every part else.
I at all times fought two issues that I by no means wished to do. One was step out of healthcare, regardless that we had many gives alongside the way in which to promote the product into totally different verticals. And the opposite factor that I at all times fought was, to not add too many professional companies with some entrepreneurs didn’t get alongside the way in which there.
They’re like, properly, why didn’t you simply. No, you are able to do this and you'll cost for this and try this. And in my thoughts, you simply have so as to add extra our bodies, extra human beings, extra staff to do this stuff. And I knew that the corporate wouldn’t be as valued in the long term with, with, a heavy service income cut up.
Spencer: Right. And, once more, to form of quick ahead, I do know you bought the corporate, you exited the corporate in 2018. And are you able to give folks an concept of how massive the corporate acquired if you exited it?
Saud Juman: Yeah, it, it grew, exponentially within the final 5 and a half to 6 years of the, of the corporate. Primarily as a consequence of our content material advertising technique, which we will get into later.
and, and by the tip of it, we had, you recognize, the, the quantity that’s floated round on the market it’s properly, over 3000 hospitals now, now hospitals, it w that was our fundamental. focus. However, we had different healthcare associated clients as properly, similar to long-term care, residence well being hospices, something healthcare associated, however our fundamental bread and butter.
What had been the hospitals? So we had 3000 hospitals. you recognize, in case you do your analysis within the United States, that’s a fairly a big market share, on the market. and after we bought it, we bought it to one of the crucial outstanding. Private fairness companies on the market as properly.
Spencer: So initially, congrats, I’m positive with the ability to exit an organization that you simply ran for.
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how, how lengthy, virtually 20 years or one thing like that? 17 and a
Saud Juman: half 17 and a
Spencer: half years. Yeah, that’s big. and I’m positive, you recognize, that does good issues. It provides you choices, proper. for, for what you are able to do subsequent. however I do need to discuss how you bought it there. Right? So you had the thought it began with simply you and the one, lead developer.
And grew to over 3000 hospitals doing I’m positive, you recognize, important quantities of income. however I need to perceive how content material performed an element in that. you recognize, you shared that content material was a giant a part of rising the corporate. And in fact my viewers may be very keen on constructing web sites and content material and content material advertising basically.
So yeah. Why don’t you dive into that? How did you employ content material to develop the corporate?
Saud Juman: Yeah. So that was, it was most likely crucial elements of the relaunch chapter of coverage medical. So six years earlier than the exit, the corporate was just about teetering on chapter. We had been a way of life firm the place it was at that time.
I had purchased out my co-founder, you recognize, we had been a few years separated at that time. He had moved on the corporate was me and. I feel two different folks at that time, proper? We had an engineer as a result of I’m not an engineer. And we had someone that was an all-rounder serving to with some customer support and serving to to do some gross sales demos.
And I began to hunt mentorship and since I began to formally search mentorship by way of a selected mentorship system, I stumbled upon. The mentors that got here into my life and most of them I’m in Toronto. So most of them had been in Silicon Valley. I used to be, I used to be getting mentorship from there. They began to ask me why the product was so subpar, why it was so mediocre.
and, and I, and I didn’t have a solution. Right. The solely reply was I turned actually, actually complacent with the corporate as a result of it had grow to be a way of life firm. It was. Making sufficient cash to offer a wage for me. you recognize, at that time I, I grow to be married and we had a few children and, however it wasn’t satisfying for me.
I personally didn’t desire a life-style firm. I wished a excessive progress, excessive impression firm that may assist. And impression a number of folks. I had this concept in my thoughts that I wished to impression over one million sufferers on daily basis, that may be impacted by our software program. So then I had to determine, okay, how do I, how do I do initially, do I need to attempt it restart and relaunch this firm?
The reply was sure, as a result of I reconnected with that concept. I had in a time of solitude once I first began the corporate. Then the query was, how do I am going about doing this factor? So the primary I’m going to quick monitor, the primary, section, which was technically rebuilding the product. so to let your listeners know, we, the primary, I'd say 12 to 18 months of the relaunch course of was me scrapping the present product.
And rebuilding it from scratch. At that time, it was all on premises. It was many various variations of the software program put in in many various hospitals. And we determined that we wished to go to this new factor again then known as the cloud. And there was this e book firm known as Amazon that began this factor known as AWS.
And we’re like, you recognize what, let’s simply put it up in AWS. Right. and, you recognize, I’m joking round a little bit bit, trigger now it’s fairly, it’s fairly commonplace. Right. So, in order that, that was onerous as a result of engineering clever, it wasn’t so simple as one would assume. But we, we pulled it off. after which as a result of we had current shoppers, it took me a great six months emigrate all of the shoppers over to the cloud.
Now, after that one thing hit me, the gross sales man that we had, he would come to me and you'd say, Hey, you recognize what? Out of the few hundred shoppers we had at the moment, which is totally different from the a number of thousand we had on the finish of the journey, solely three, one, one in all be references. And I used to be like solely three, one to be references.
You mentioned? Yeah. I mentioned, okay. And he mentioned, and so they’re getting bored with being references. So I spotted that our shoppers weren’t actually comfortable. I spotted that they had been sticking round as a result of in healthcare it’s a reasonably sticky trade, however they weren't followers. And I spotted that, okay, we have to do we have to do one thing totally different right here as a result of we have to decide up extra income.
And I spotted that. The approach that we used to deliver, purchase shoppers at the start of the bidding of the corporate, it was very outbound targeted. We had been making a number of chilly calls and reaching out and dialing and every part else. And that may have utterly modified. Right. Outbound was actually, actually tough.
So I began to do some studying and I noticed that contents content material appears to be, you recognize, quote unquote King, and I launched into a content material technique. And what I wished to do was I wished coverage medical to grow to be the Wiki pedia of our house. So I wished that web site each time, not simply my clients, however potential clients and likewise prospects of my rivals.
When anyone in that, in our area of interest wished details about. Policies and procedures for healthcare about coverage administration software program, not essentially even about our software program, however points pertaining to the ecosystem that we touched. I wished our web site to be the Wikipedia of our house. So then that was, that was an actual course of as a result of the primary product, the very first thing I needed to do was that to take inventory of our present web site.
And I spotted that we had a whole lot of. Weak content material. It was all gross sales associated, advertising associated rubbish, to be trustworthy with you, prefer it didn’t, it wasn’t, it wasn’t me. Right. And I turned educated sufficient on all of the totally different algorithms and the meta-tags and all of the website positioning greatest practices. And, and I, and I do know that each one of that's necessary, however in my thoughts, the extra analysis I did is I spotted that we have to constantly publish.
Authentic instructional premium content material on this web site in a pure approach recurrently. And I additionally was of the assumption that we will’t do that in an solely outsourced approach. We want to do that internally. So I began to construct, a course of and a system to truly make that occur. So.
Spencer: How did you provide you with content material concepts for that new form of Wikipedia that you simply wished to make it?
you recognize, the place w the place you simply, arising with concepts, by yourself in any case, clarify that course of a little bit
Saud Juman: bit. Yeah. And you recognize what I imply? I acquired to offer some shout outs to you that there, there have been some those who taught me some of these things, and I acquired a whole lot of learnings from a few of these folks.
And then I began to combine it into my very own enterprise. In form of a real-world sensible approach. one of many guys that I did study loads from his identify is Marcus Sheridan. You’ve heard of Marcus, however he’s a longtime pal. Yeah. And this was like proper after he left this pool firm. So he taught me a whole lot of what he did, however principally what I ended up doing is I, I spotted that, you recognize what, I can’t afford to go rent healthcare particular consultants to write down content material for us.
And additionally it didn’t really feel proper. To produce other folks writing content material as a result of we must be the specialists. and particularly if we’re going to, my, my perception was, the perfect salespeople don’t promote anymore. They educate like we have now to be educating our clients about their very own atmosphere and our personal, our personal trade.
So we created this insourcing sort of a course of. So, what we ended up doing was we might collect the workers for a lunch and study, you recognize, simply get some pizza. We go into the large boardroom, as soon as a month and we had a whiteboard wall. So it’s like an enormous wall of white boarding. And we might brainstorm, we might brainstorm concepts that individuals had for content material.
And at first it was a little bit bit tough for them as a result of. You had been like, what, how can we consider content material concepts facet? So then I began to inform them, I mentioned, Hey, you recognize what? Okay. Customer service individual, consumer success individual, what are shoppers telling you on the cellphone? They’re like, Oh, properly, they’re speaking about this.
And they’re asking me about that. I mentioned, okay, flip that into a subject. Right. after which salespeople, I'd say, properly, if you’re making an attempt to promote the product, What are they telling you on the cellphone? What are they telling you by e-mail? Right. What’s happening? They’re like, properly, they’re asking about this just lately, or, you recognize what they’re actually asking about?
Can we combine Microsoft workplace into the cloud? Right. Like again then, for instance, you recognize, Google docs, wasn’t a factor. you recognize, so, so I’m providing you with an instance. I can use case the thought of, of taking Microsoft phrase and integrating it to the cloud so folks can collaborate on one doc, remotely.
That was, that was a giant push. So the workers began to provide you with these totally different concepts and we put all of them up in a whiteboard over the course of an hour. Then after the hour was finished, we might step again and I’d give all people 5, 10 minutes to have a look at all of the matters. And then we might go round and we’d say, okay, you recognize what?
Pick one for this month. And then you definately don’t have, you don’t have to select your individual. You can decide someone else’s proper. Pick one for this month that you simply need to assist with. So then all people decide one, after which we might write that down in a spreadsheet. Now in that very same spreadsheet, we have now, we had interviewed the those who work on the firm and we’d requested them, they mentioned, Hey, you recognize, what, what do you view your self as when it comes to a content material contributor?
Do you view your self as a author? Are you extra snug writing? Because some folks identical to to write down, do you hate writing? Do you simply need to be interviewed by someone? and so they’ll do the writing. Are you extra of an audio individual? Do you simply need to communicate right into a voice memo? Right. And then we will simply have that transcribed to Otter or one thing like that.
And then, after which we will go from there. do you like seeing your self on video? Come on. Just like, you recognize, let’s simply admit it. Do you need to be, you recognize, do you need to do a bunch of movies? Right? so we might, you recognize, we might speak to them to see what their consolation stage was and the way they wished to contribute.
And then we might regulate that, like there was one man, one govt, for instance, that. That felt he was nice on video, however he was horrible in video. Right. after which felt that he was nice writing, however he was horrible author. Right. It seems that he was nice at spewing, a bunch of wonderful details to someone that may interview him.
Right. Right. So principally the insourcing is arising with the preliminary drafts of every part. And then we might take these drafts and ship it to our advertising workforce and the advertising workforce. That’s the place I went. That’s the place I spent many of the cash when it comes to hiring as a result of the advertising workforce, if I provide the make-up, we had the top of promoting and that was onerous to search out, however we ultimately discovered a tremendous head of promoting.
And then throughout the head of promoting, We had a author that may truly, we have now two writers, proper. That would take a few of this content material and Polish it. Right. Make it, make it lovely. after which we had a digital individual, digital individual was, you recognize, they might assist with some video enhancing, audio enhancing, you recognize, we had a inexperienced display screen and a few cameras and stuff like that in one other room.
Right. So they might assist with that sort of stuff. after which additionally we had, a advertising automation individual as a result of we had been massive HubSpot customers. So they might, they, they might type of assist assist with that, however backtracking that’s how the content material acquired produced. It, the concepts got here from the workers. We categorize them, simply recapping right here into how they might initially provide you with these drafts.
And then it will be given to the advertising workforce to Polish and, and, and prepare to truly be launched. And then we might stage it and launch it on the web site, generally the newsletters, et cetera. And then we might truly monitor statistics and feed it again to the workers each month to say, Hey.
Just so all people is aware of, you recognize what, one of many instruments that’s serving to the gross sales workforce shut some critical enterprise and shut. Plenty of offers is definitely Kim’s article. Right. And it is a true factor. It’s like, you recognize, Kim was, my govt assistant, however she additionally did the entire invoicing and bookkeeping and, and assortment calls and issues like that.
Right. and she or he learn it, I neglect she wrote some type of article on, on, On an invoicing, proper. And, and the way hospitals, successfully pay on time or one thing like that. But that was like, that was some, a way the gross sales workforce ended up utilizing that. and she or he was, you recognize, she was giving stats as to the impact of her precise article.
And that began to offer folks increasingly and extra confidence. and a little bit little bit of pleasant competitors of like, Oh, okay, properly, you recognize what I’d prefer to see. I like my identify to return up within the subsequent assembly.
Spencer: So the place did the visitors come from? You publish the content material. Was it principally that you simply had been making an attempt to get visitors from Google folks simply looking out or was it different locations.
Saud Juman: Yeah. I imply, there have been these, brief tail key phrases that we had been concentrating on. Right. So, when it comes to natural search outcomes, that began to extend much more. We began to see the, I assume the Seesaw scale tip a little bit bit the place we began to spend much less on PPC after which the, the website positioning natural visitors began to extend when it comes to demo requests.
we additionally use that content material. We, we discovered. We discovered over time from, from folks like Marcus and others, that the extra content material we can provide prospects between the time of after they contact us for a demo of a SAS primarily based product or merchandise to the primary demo, the upper, the shut ratio went up and that quantity was someplace round 30.
30 items of content material. So for instance, Spencer, in case you, in case you contact me as we speak, if I've that firm mentioned, Hey, Saud, you recognize what, I’ve been in your web site and I’m prepared for a demo. I’d like to see your software program. We acquired the location so properly populated with credible content material. That by the point you'd request the demo, I knew you had been a professional lead.
I knew that you simply had a funds. I knew that you simply’re trying to spend cash and purchase this product inside three to 6 months. You weren’t simply kicking the tires simply to see, simply, simply to see what, what, what we have now and waste your time. So by the point that got here in, I knew you had been considerably critical. So between that outreach to after we truly provide the demo, on zoom or WebEx or go to conferences or no matter, we ended up utilizing again then, If I can get you to eat about 30 items of content material, we, and which, which we ended up doing our shut ratio, our win fee when it comes to successful offers went up from 20% and 20% MuleSoft delicate SAS corporations will let you know like, Oh yeah, 20%.
That’s fairly good. Because for the final 25, 30 years, SAS corporations are like, you recognize what? A 10% hit ratio is nice, which signifies that for each hundred folks, you by some means speak to, you’re going to shut 10 of them. Right. So that, that may be nice. But our shut ratio, by the point we, I bought the corporate, went as much as 70%, seven zero now.
Yeah. And that's actually due to content material, as a result of if you concentrate on it, solely the intense folks which might be occupied with shopping for will stick round on this detailed web site. So by the point they eat sufficient stuff and we type of architect their journey by way of the location and so they get to, okay. Yeah. You know what?
I desire a demo. They’re already fairly heat. They transformed they’re pre-qualified. And then between requests to truly demo execution, we might ship a publication and within the publication can be embedded the approximate 30 items of content material. Now a chunk of content material could possibly be a little bit paragraph. That piece of content material could possibly be a video, proper.
It seems like a pleasant one-page publication. But it has all of the content material embedded in there and what we might, what the gross sales individual would say is, Hey, you recognize what? We’re actually excited to point out you to spend time with you to do a double. We truly don’t need to waste your time throughout the demo. we have now realized from our expertise that.
You’re most likely going to have this query this fashion and we might listing all of the questions and so they’d be studying the inquiries to the e-mail, like, yeah, these are the, these are the questions we’re coming into the, the demo with we’d even say, yeah, you would possibly need to know pricing and also you say, you recognize, we’ve truly ready this text.
It’s most likely greatest so that you can collect together with your workforce. And by the way in which, right here’s who the workforce must be. So a whole lot of these, a whole lot of these, a whole lot of these items within the e-mail, It got here from, from ache. We encountered up to now ache, for instance, can be going to a demo. And there’s a low stage or mid-level supervisor that doesn’t have any actual energy to decide.
We’re spending an hour doing a demo and we’re, and so they’re like, properly, I acquired to take, kick it as much as my boss. Right. So we’re telling them to arrange for a demo. You want these folks within the room, proper. And by the way in which, deliver them to the demo. But it is best to meet with them this week. If you may. Just get collectively just about or in a room someplace and undergo all of the content material on this explicit publication, as a result of it’s going to reply, however 80% of the questions that we all know you’re going to have.
And then after we get collectively, guess what? Maybe our demo time as a substitute of an hour, it could possibly be half an hour. so that truly is what took our shut ratio up fairly a bit. And then the, throughout the demo time we went from spending, you recognize, out of a 60 minute time block, we might be given. we went from, you recognize, speaking for 15 minutes and saying, Oh, do you've gotten any questions on the finish of 10 minutes to speaking for 20 minutes?
And then having them speak for the remainder of the hour, proper? And the extra you get the shopper speaking, the upper probability will likely be so that you can win that deal. The extra you speak, the much less doubtless we’ll be so that you can win the deal.
Spencer: Right. And so your potential clients are simply way more educated all alongside the way in which, as a result of they’re getting these emails, they’re studying the weblog posts or the watching movies.
They’re, they’re getting all this content material. And so hopefully you’re answering only a ton of the questions alongside the way in which. and to type of, a degree I wanna make right here is that it. I don’t know what the worth level was to your software program instrument, however I’m positive it’s not small. Like what, what was form of the typical, gross sales cycle life, life cycle of the gross sales course of and what was the worth?
Saud Juman: Typical, typical gross sales cycle can be round, let’s say three to 6 months. Hmm. And the median deal measurement. I imply, we might worth it out primarily based on the variety of full-time staff per yr. So our typical deal measurement, it may vary. It could possibly be as little as $30,000 a yr. And then it could actually go all the way in which as much as the seven figures per yr.
But our median deal measurement was about 200 Okay a yr.
Spencer: Wow. So I like that. as a result of I simply need to distinction with perhaps my typical listener, proper? they’re constructing web sites and a whole lot of them are simply promoting merchandise that individuals can purchase on Amazon. Right? So they arrive to their web site, they learn one article, they go over and so they click on and so they purchase their widget.
Right. you recognize, one thing may cost $50, proper? It’s an excellent brief gross sales cycle. They Googled one thing, they discovered the web site. They go by all of it inside an hour. Right. But I simply, I like the truth that content material and a few of the very same rules for answering folks’s questions for, you recognize, scripting this nice content material that individuals can reference.
It nonetheless works. even at this greater finish of 30,000 to one million a yr, probably. Right. for a software program product, I, I I’d love that truth, that content material, a whole lot of the identical rules nonetheless apply.
Saud Juman: You know, and there, and there have been three issues that took us from what we’re speaking about now. So I assume we will simply name it like content material technique, 2.zero for us.
the very first thing we realized in our content material after some time was actually, actually that clients actually love. They love this factor known as the reality. So we began to be like the reality, the integrity police, the reality police, as a result of as content material began to. Be put on the market and generally some staff would name me out on it.
You know, they imply we’ve all finished it. Like if you get into gross sales mode and also you get excited, you begin perhaps teetering on the road of claiming one thing that will or might not be true. Like, I don’t know. It’s like, yeah, we, we we’re, we're going to construct this cool new characteristic. Right. So, so it took us, you recognize, a couple of months to get actually good at calling one another on which may not be the reality which may not be the reality.
So impulsively now, simply solely telling the reality in our content material. And that that’s truly a giant factor as a result of many of the rivals on the market for many, in no matter trade, they don’t at all times inform the reality. And then the second factor was in search of the notes. So each time I'd consider an concept or an worker or the workforce would consider an concept the place it was no.
It’s not a good suggestion to do what the shopper’s asking on this case. Most folks, they don’t, they need to simply brush that over, or it is perhaps a characteristic that, you recognize, the shopper is craving, however you recognize, that it’s a foul concept to construct and we don’t need to construct it as a substitute of constructing it and giving it to them and simply promoting it to them.
We would relish the chance to write down content material. Around why we expect it is a unhealthy concept, proper. That truly bolsters your credibility within the buyer’s thoughts. And results in gross sales, as a result of give it some thought. Like in case you go to a retailer and also you’re actually like, you’re actually an advert to biases of this factor. And the, and the salesperson is like, no, you recognize what, Oh, you’re in a motorcycle retailer otherwise you need to purchase that?
No, don’t purchase that. That’s, that’s not good. You can purchase this as a substitute. Right. All of a sudden you’re like, Oh man, I needed to belief this man. Right. And then the very last thing we did was, involving the shoppers. In the content material creation. And that half was, was identical to, can’t underscore how beneficial that was for us after they began to write down for us, communicate for us, do webinars for us.
Right. And there was an entire new technique round how we acquired them to do this. that, that, that basically, actually labored properly.
Spencer: Wow. I'd like to dive in to the content material technique a little bit bit extra, however folks could also be, can get in contact with you afterwards in the event that they need to hear extra about that. as a result of I do need to provide you with an opportunity to have the ability to share with folks.
What are you doing now? I imply, you bought the corporate a few years in the past. What are you as much as today?
Saud Juman: Yeah. Great, nice query, Spencer. I imply the primary yr it’s been about two, two years and alter the primary yr I rested. And recovered from the journey and spent, hung out with my spouse and youngsters and every part else like that.
after which the final yr or so, it’s been type of determining what I need to do subsequent. So today, I assume there are three, three fundamental focuses. One is, I’m on the brink of begin a brand new SAS enterprise. in order that’s, that’s fairly thrilling. It’s like, yeah, it’s like doing it once more. The second bucket that I’m actually targeted on is, is content material truly is writing.
I’m not a giant social media individual when it comes to, of content material there, however I’m extra form of lengthy kind. So there, there are a few books that I’ve dedicated to. the one e book I’m actively engaged on proper now's round, elevating entrepreneurial children. So that’s, that’s one thing that I’m actively engaged on.
And then lastly, simply being of service to different entrepreneurs, by sharing the errors, I’ve made something good that will have labored out. and that appears, you recognize, generally it’s within the type of teaching, mentoring, advising these, these, these varieties of issues.
Spencer: So if folks wished to succeed in out to you and perhaps get a few of your recommendation, or perhaps even have you ever coached them a little bit bit, the place ought to they go?
Saud Juman: my web site might be the perfect, place to go. So that’s Saad juman.io. and likewise when it comes to social media, the one Avenue that I’m semi-active on, you could, you may attain me and phone me on is on LinkedIn. And, it’s simply at .
Spencer: Awesome. Thank you a lot, Saud. if folks need to attain out to you, they will try this.
you’ve shared a ton of superior methods suggestions, for each content material advertising arising with nice, concepts by way of form of that artistic properly, so I simply need to thanks a lot for approaching the area of interest pursuits podcast and sharing your
Saud Juman: thanks, Spencer. It’s been my pleasure and thanks for having me.